Gurdjieff as spy? /2008/08/02/gurdjieff-as-spy-a-comment/

Gurdjieff as spy? 2 comments

Two good comments about Gurdjieff as a suspected intelligence agent.
I will upgrade these comments to post level, due to their interest (keeping in mind the author speaks for himself, we are crippled by our ignorance here). Thank you for the insight.
I tried to indicate a similar sentiment in the /gmancon series (see the links), but of course it is difficult to know, and Gurdjieff’s activities are a reminder at least that not only he but many others have used the ‘esoteric’ to deceive people. Behind Gurdjieff perhaps lies ‘another’ unknown who must have thought it would be intelligently ‘funny’ (someone’s bon idee) to make a guru out of a spy, and in any case get someone with the devil’s talents to root out whatever might be rescued from the truly obscure

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Gurdjieff suspected of being an intelligence agent

Here are the two comments I said I would upgrade to post level due to their interest. The comment trackback at the end is from ‘admin’.
Comments 59 and 60
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mybrainisafleamarket said,

08.02.08 at 8:17 am ·

My personal guess is even if Gurdjieff had had genuine spiritual traditions shoved right in his face, he would only have seen them as power tools and as resources to manipulate people.

James Webb makes a convincing case to this reader (The Harmonious Circle) that G was employed as a spy by the Imperial Russian secret service, and this enabled him to travel as widely as he did.

Now…consider the life of a spy. You live with the knowledge that you are expendable. If you are discovered, your handlers may disavow your existence. You may well die nastily and quickly or slowly and miserably in some prison.

Meanwhile if you’re free to operate as a spy, you pretend at every moment to be someone you are not. You live behind a mask. Your mind is under tension. You dare not make a wrong move. Intimacy is impossible. Tender feelings are suppressed because they may cause you to blow your cover.

Meanwhile, all persons you come in contact with are used by you as objects to be manipulated and milked for information.

This is a state of mind and body incompatible with receiving and benefitting from even the most elementary spiritual instruction. A spy has to operate from ego to be successful and live behind a mask. A spy cannot get beyond ego. Instead, whatever he learns from a spiritual preceptor
will be run through the filter of the spy’s own priorities and will be seen as a set of power tools.

Now, after G had to leave Bolshevik Russia, and the Brits denied him a visa (Webb suspects that was because they knew he had spied against them in India and Tibet)…Gurdy settled in Paris.

We have learned a thing or two about how often career military men find themselves depressed and disoriented when they retire from the service.
What happens to an unemployed spy whose government no longer exists?

My hypothesis, based on Webb, is that by creating his fake esoteric school, Gurdy could enjoy the use of his spy master talents, like the character ‘Control’ in Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. He introduced his followers into an exciting cloak and dagger world, taught them to spy on themselves (self remembering) and relate to themselves as objects and to all around them as objects.

It was fun for Gurdy. Without it he would’ve been another traumatized White Russian, having to drive a taxi cab in Paris.

Just my opinion.

Anything derived from Gurdjieff is a fake of a fake.

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mymindisafleanmarket said,

08.02.08 at 1:00 pm · Edit

And, in a sad way, Gurdy may well have been trying to persuade himself as much as his students..namely persuade himself that he still mattered and had something significant to offer.

Problem is he created an infra structure that has empowered several generations of charlatans, and entrapped generations of sincere people. Ive read accounts from children
who grew up in Gurdjieff families. The parents were so involved that they were not present to thier kids. So..some kids made themselves get interested in the stuff so that as Fourth Way prodigies, they could elicit some nurture from the adults. Thus the malaise passed on.

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___________________________________________________________________________________
This is the comment trackback from ‘admin’:
The Gurdjieff Con » Gurdjieff as spy? A comment said,

08.02.08 at 1:39 pm · Edit

[…] Two good comments about Gurdjieff as a suspected intelligence agent. I will upgrade these comments to post level, due to their interest (keeping in mind the author speaks for himself, we are crippled by our ignorance here). Thank you for the insight. I tried to indicate a similar sentiment in the /gmancon series (see the links), but of course it is difficult to know, and Gurdjieff’s activities are a reminder at least that not only he but many others have used the ‘esoteric’ to deceive people. Behind Gurdjieff perhaps lies ‘another’ unknown who must have thought it would be intelligently ‘funny’ (someone’s bon idee) to make a guru out of a spy, and in any case get someone with the devil’s talents to root out whatever might be rescued from the truly obscure labyrinth of the ’sufi’ world. Another issue, as the commenter states in his own way, is the ’switch’ to a politician’s ethics (and thence the spy’s ethics!) in the sense of Machiavelli and the stance toward ‘lies in public’. […]

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