Three interesting comments from ‘Saying No’ /2008/08/20/three-interesting-comments-from-saying-no/

Three interesting comments from ‘Saying No’

Three comments from Saying No

I have a gut feeling that many who consider themselves spiritual and especially those who defend authoritarian teacher/student relationships
actually worship power in the guise of spirituality.

I will dare to take it further and suggest that this type of seeker and guru are unconsciously involved in BDSM but dont know it. They cannot feel themselves spiritual unless thrilling to a power imbalance.

At least, conscious kinksters know what they want and negotiate in advance to ensure that there is a clearly marked entry point and exit point in the ’scene’ and that the person being dumped on has a safe word and can call a halt or ask for a pause if the action goes from being challenging to being traumatic.

A man who had been in a fourth way group run by Alex Horn allowed Horn to slap his wife’s face and failed to defend her. All this man can do to this day is defend Horn by saying, ‘But he had the powah!’

And to me that explained it all–power was all that mattered. It didnt matter whether power was used benevolently or cruelly, whether power was gained honestly or through deceit or force, to some primitive minded folk, power equals legitimacy. One finds this in the argument that Hitler (or some other charismatic brute or brute-ess) is an avatar-becaause no has such power unless earned through many fortunate rebirths.

At least the kinky people are, up front about playing games with power. They do it consciously and ensure everyone goes home satisfied.

Which is a far better set up than what goes on in large sectors of the fake spirtuality scene where one cannot even discuss power without being accused of ‘negativity.’

If G or those inspired by him were honest, they’d dress in leather and abide by the rules and regs of ethical BDSM.

To sign off here is an essay that might offer some validation about
the many lifetimes of influence if one gets involved with the wrong kind of esoteric group:

How to Spot Abusive Spiritual Teachers

(excerpt from the essay)

Everything May Not Be As it First Appears

“Be particularly suspicious if there is any sort of ritual with the apparent purpose of bonding the student to the teacher. There is a type of binding magic used to subjugate the will of the student to that of the master. This might make it easier for the master to make sure you continue to look after his financial and sexual needs and that you will rationalize any indiscretions you observe to his favor.

“It is important it is to find out as much as you can about a teacher before you get involved in his group. If you see signs of promiscuity with students, financial motivation, or psychological control don’t get involved. An enlightened teacher who cares about the welfare of his students will not abuse them sexually, financially, nor psychologically. Sometimes potential students suspect such behavior is going on, but rationalize joining the group anyway on the basis that they can learn what is worthwhile and then leave anytime.

(However some teachers are quite good at concealing promiscuity–it becomes a secret kept by a privliged inner circle)

“But the more involved you become, the more likely you will become energetically “hooked”. Once you have formed bonds with the teacher and the people in the organization it is a lot more difficult to leave. In the worst cases, you will not be allowed to leave at all. Those that took poison with Jim Jones did not sign an agreement that this was acceptable to them when they joined the group.

“When you look for a spiritual teacher it is important to look at the person’s actions as well as their words. Sometimes this is difficult to do because people are not likely to tell the dirt on their teacher. You may have to contact people who left the organization in order to find out and then try to read the truth in the energy of the delivery. Remember that you cannot necessarily tell much about the guy just by looking at him. Successful criminals are very charismatic; that’s what makes them successful.

“Teachers who abuse students may look radiant. They will size you up and figure out what your hooks are. They might look you in the eye and listen to your deepest fears, pretending that they know much more about you then you know about yourself. They may imply that they hold some secret knowledge that will be revealed to you later.

” They might tell you that there is something dark about you, perhaps something from a past life, that you need them to help you overcome*. They might put their arm around you with what appears to be paternal affection, but once a predator has gained your confidence, they may pull you down to their bedside or ask you to do something else that would have been morally unacceptable to you before you were involved with the group.

“This wake up call could happen years after you joined.”

(Note: If interested, get and read Amy Wallace’s book, Sorcerer’s Apprentice: My Life with Carlos Castaneda. Castaneda met Amy’s father Irving Wallace and was introduced to Amy when she was a young teenager.
Castaneda waited for years, until Wallace was in her early thirties, vulnerable and grief stricken following the death of her father, and clinically depressed. Right at that vulnerable point, Castaneda phoned Amy and claimed he had seen Amy’s father in a dream and that Amy’s father was in distress.

Amy Wallace had recently attended a reading by one of Castenda’s female proteges, and this woman was a recruiter for him. This was how Amy Wallace, at a drastically vulnerable time was pulled into Castaneda’s orbit of influence as a member of his inner circle–and harem. A very disturbing book but it gives a detailed description of how a small group dictator can operate and play on the needs of his prey.)

From Saying NO, 2008/08/19 at 4:18 PM

I was entangled with someone who was not a magician, just subtly and highly charismatic. He had genuine healing talents, many benefitted, but
I was used for narcissistic supplies.

It took years of therapy to understand the situation and a great deal of outside reading on my part. A lot of my self education was done in the pre-internet days and I searched hard in the library of the local medical school to find books and articles.

Just recently I had a dream that signalled that the bond was broken. Consciously I knew I was already free. But the dream signalled that somehow my inner landscape had been freed from this man’s influence.

I dreamed that I was arguing with X, he was claiming excuse after excuse, including that he was clinically depressed.

I told him to leave my place and that I planned to get a restraining order the next day. As back up, in case X did not believe me, I had already phoned the police and did not tell him.

X refused to leave and the police showed up. I told the police I wanted X to leave and planned to file a restraining order next day. The police dragged X out of my apartment.

One can prepare the stage by doing personal analysis and reclaiming ones inner landscape. Later on, a dream may signal that your inner work has been completed.

From Saying NO, 2008/08/19 at 4:28 PM

mybrainisafleamarket |

I didnt need bravery. The dream was a sort of clean up operation/confirmation of things that had been worked out, partly thorugh my conscious effort and the rest at unconcious levels.

BTW if you and nemo and other readers are interested, Ive recently obtained a copy of a book by a man who was in the Ancient Mystical Order of the Rosicrucians for about 24 years. Mr Freeman emerged convinced that the organization had created a most remarkable form of thought control that can be implemented via remote control–quite different from cults that operate on the one-on-one model.

The book is entitled The Prisoner of San Jose and if you go to you can read commentary and order a copy.

There may be sufficient similarities with Fourth Way that you and nemo could make use of this.

One point Freeman identified as salient is that he was, without knowing it, taught to do home rituals that took up a very great deal of time, and two, had the effect of inducing trance.

It was only after one did such rituals that one then studied the AMORC literature—and in a suggestible state of mind.

And, what was taught at entry level was reassuring, and different from what was taught at higher levels, after one became invested and entangled.

Yet another crucial element in the binding recipe was to install phobias of what misfortunes would entail if one left the group or even questioned it.

Reportedly if one left AMORC or questionsed its leaders or teachings, one lost the connection with god (engregor) and ‘became subject to fate’

Sounds a lot like o’l G? And–he had been adept at trance induction too. With lots of home exercises to be done.

Must mention that in suggestiblity, one could even have terrifying dreams if one dared leave the group or questioned it. I recall having stunning dreams after first exposure to reading Jungian psychology. However, the dreams were useful to me and I didnt feel invaded or terrorized. But if under suggestion from a group that pepetrates psychic binding and slavery I could well imagine that persons even thinking of leaving might have terrifying dreams and be scared into remaining where they are–a shame.

But I like to hope that ones true self might send dreams that could aid escape no matter how frightened one is. THAT is where one needs bravery.

I will quote just a couple of Freeman’s 15 Articles of Remote Control. Those who want the whole list and to read his story should order a copy of his book.

Article Four—-Develop a Sacred Environment

Have the member create an environment suitable for cultivating the hypnogogic state. Utilize costumes, special furniture, symbols, and religious or political paraphernalia related to that environment. Brand (trademark) that environment. The Nazis were superb at branding their environments. Adolph Hitler had his own personal architect for his buildings, though that man wound up in jail for most of his life.

Article Five

Construct Revered Rituals

Create practices for the members, like chanting, movements, and concentration on candles, that can create a hypnogogic state. Use such devices for ostensibly different purposes but in a context of being provided by a higher, superior or infallible authority. This will further augment the transference as well as suggestibility. These practices, especially ones like special ritualistic movements or gestures with repeated songs or mantras will enforce more bonding within the cult.

Article 11

Create Multiple Triggers to Invoke the Cult Personality

Envelope members in exercises, rituals, and special practices so that they walk, eat, and sleep in specifically branded ways, reflecting group practices and traditions. By doing this you will create multiple triggers to invoke the cult personality whenever doubt arises. Even when conscious of the problems, members may be driven back to the herd by the strength of this artificially constructed personality.

Article 15–Make the Spiritual Realm More Real Than This One

Question member’s focus on physical reality. Create a sense that subjective reality is more objective than physical reality** –particularly a subjective reality that reinforces the cults interpretation of the world. Question the reality of the physical world, of time and space and the need for logic—based decision making.

**(Fleamarket: the fad for ‘create your own reality’ philosophies makes it easy to slip in toxic versions. Freeman wrote at the very end of his book that he was listening to someone desribe in a news interview how they had been involved with something for five years and said, it was a long time.

Freeman wondered how they could feel 5 years was a long time, when his own 24 years in AMORC had not seemed such a long time. After a lot of
self scrutiny, he realized he had the illusion that 24 years didnt feel like such a long time, because during his many periods of home produced trance and then studying AMORC teachings, he had internalized AMORC doctrine of timelessness. He had not felt the passing of years and this
in turn had contributed to his being trapped. It was like the illusion of time
standing still if one is heavily drugged. One can lose very important real world life opportunities in such a state, or fail to take financial and social measures to anticipate ones own needs in old age.)

Meanwhile the leaders who propagage such trance work are well cared for in old age, have no doubt on that one.

(quoted from The Prisoner of San Jose, Wheatmark, 2008)

From Saying NO, 2008/08/20 at 9:49 AM

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