TL: replied very nicely:
Re: New Age, New Socialism…
Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 6:16 am
Yeah okay … no prob. I don’t have much time invested in the project, so letting go is easy.
A question. What is the eonic effect? I’ve read a little of your stuff where it’s in the title, but thus far have not seen a definition of what it is or what it means.
I recently interacted with a reader who wanted to republish my text of DG online, which he had already done, and I didn’t at first object
as long as he made no changes to the text. Then he added links and a confusion arose at once as I indicate below.
As I saw the possible confusion that could arise, so I more or less withdrew permission save as a short quote
There are a number of issues here, but indirectly I must hint at the dangers of a text attacking Gurdjieff.
I recommend caution. Even as a citation by a third party of my statements.
This is not the world of secular humanists (although I consider myself such in a different way) who find the ghost of Hamlet’s father
a charming stage effect (actually that’s correct, it is dramatic fiction)!
Dead gurus we suspect are un-alive and well in the ghost format, and they don’t like critics.
The nature of the afterlife, bardos, souls, selves, etc is a set of mysteries in permanent Kantian muddle.
But rank negation by skeptics is also often wrong.
In any case, Debriefing Gurdjieffianity is not a very good book technically, although it serves its purpose well enough, I think. But it was too angry and misleading
in the sense that its attack on Gurdjieff was not a secular humanist critique of a New Age figure.
Gurdjieff had a very interesting platform but he wrecked it with a strange demonic cast.
I should perhaps write a second edition.
JL/blog owner at gurdjieff-con.net
One exchange is below…
Re: New Age, New Socialism…
Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 5:27 am
I noticed the links you added to DG, e.g. the Axial Age, linked to Wikipedia. But the material there is not very good and my usage, if you read World History and the Eonic Effect, is different.
I try to correct the usage of the term, which Wikipedia in any case muddles.
So adding a mere link is misleading. And it is likely to be so in every case.
You may cite this text if you make no changes whatever. Why not a brief quote and a link?
I cannot really allow you a free hand here: the exact text with no changes at all, or nothing.
Also, it is very important to be wary of Gurdjieff: to associate yourself with a critique can have mysterious consequences. Such people alive or dead can have strange consequences.
The status of dead gurus is incomprehensible to beginners, and it is not a safe zone.
Such entities do not like critics, and /or promoters of critics: you make hidden enemies without knowing it.
Therefore I strongly recommend you discontinue making this book a part of your project, beyond a simple link and brief quote. Debate this if you like
but your list might be better whithout my text. I have a dozen better books you could cite with links.
This book has helped thousands of Gurdjieff fans sort out that mysterious figure. They are not nice people, dead or alive
Sent: Mon, Mar 27, 2023 5:44 pm
Subject: Re: New Age, New Socialism…
Yes, I’ve been reading from your other blog at redfortyeight. I’ll check out The Last Revolution.
I remember your gurdjieff-con blog from way back. I don’t remember why I quit reading from it — probably thought something like it was a bit over the top with negativity? (I’ve been practicing “walking-meditation” as you call it for over 50 years.) Briefly joined the FoF in 1979 (they kicked me out), but other than that, I’ve had no association with any 4th-Way group.
Been retired, living in the Philippines since 2008, and have had the time to read and learn … my views on Gurdjieff have always been a little bit skeptical, more so in the past 15 years.
I’ve been working on reformatting your book Debriefing Gurdjieffianity with the plan to post it using my tabbed pages format to add it to the collection of books I’ve posted on my website. (http://tonylutz.com/index.php/ebooks/latest-e-books)
Let me know if you do not want me to publish it.